Curse

Lord Oranos · Sep 15, 2006, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Well, Ive been wanting to try something new for awhile, and this new update lets me do this. This build does good damage, has hex and condition removal, a decent heal, has mobility, a snare, and a teleport in case you bite off more than you can chew. I call it:

The Emphatic Assassin
A/Mo
Critical Strikes: 9 (8+1)
Dagger Mastery: 16 (12+4)
Shadow Arts: 11 (10+1)

- Leaping Mantis Sting (Dagger Mastery)
If Mantis Sting hits, target foe takes +20 damage. If this attack strikes a moving foe, that foe is Crippled for 16 seconds.
Energy:5 Cast:0 Recharge:8

- Jungle Strike (Dagger Mastery)
Must follow a lead attack. If it hits, this attack strikes for +26 damage. If it hits a foe that was Crippled, it does +33 damage.
Energy:5 Cast:0 Recharge:10

- Twisting Fangs (Critical Strikes)
Must follow an off-hand attack. If it hits, Twisting Fangs strikes for +16 damage and struck foe suffers from Bleeding and Deep Wound for 14 seconds.
Energy:10 Cast:0 Recharge:15

- Empathic Removal [Elite] (Monk other)
Elite Spell. You and target other ally lose 1 Condition and 1 Hex.
Energy:5 Cast:1 Recharge:10

- Dash (Assassin None)
For 3 seconds, you run 50% faster.
Energy:5 Cast:0 Recharge:8

- Shadow of Haste (Shadow Arts)
For 52 seconds you move 15% faster than normal. When Shadow of Haste ends, you return to the location where you activated this skill.
Energy:5 Cast:0 Recharge:30

- Shadow Refuge (Shadow Arts)
For 4 seconds, you gain 9 Health regeneration. When Shadow Refuge ends, you gain 64 Health if you are attacking.
Energy:5 Cast:1 Recharge:8

- Shroud of Distress (Shadow Arts)[OR res sig]
For 30 seconds, if you are below 50% Health, you have a 59% chance to evade attacks.
Energy:10 Cast:1 Recharge:15

As always, comments, compliments, and criticism are welcome.

Skuld · Sep 15, 2006, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Get rid of shroud of distress imo, it isn't that great.

White_Chaos · Sep 15, 2006, 02:27 PM // 14:27

first of all allways have a rez skill exept if you are solo farming
and There are better elites
and Dash isnt so good rather get Dark Escape

Lord Oranos · Sep 15, 2006, 06:53 PM // 18:53

@Skuld-Yeah it was just a filler for Ab's

@White_Chaos-Read the OR res sig part,and Dash is a cancel stance for Shadow of Haste, and it provides a nice 50% boost every 8 seconds.

Also, please, tell me what elite could be better, the only one I actually liked was Beguiling Haze to screw with casters alittle bit, but I cant cover the condition, so it will most likely be removed.

Palm Strike- Meh, my crit stikes are only at 9, Id only do 55 damage with it.

Seeping Wound- too easy to remove, no cover hex.

Dark Apostasy- Some potential, could be useful.

Flashing Blades...no.

Shadow Shroud, maybe, I could only see this useful against Dervishes, and Boon Prots though.

Aura of Displacement-Sorry, but I dont feel like always having this on my bar.

Temple Strike-Best one on this list, though it would take some of the damage out of the combo, it has the possibility to shutdown an opponent for a good amount of time.

Moebius Strike-To be honest, I used this before I changed to Emphatic Removal, not that useful, I dont have two dual attacks, and Id rather be more stable against Hexes and Conditions than have a +37 attack after my 3 attack combo.

Locust's Fury-My critical strikes is 9, it lasts 25 seconds, and is rend fodder, once again, Id rather be more resilient.

Pick Me · Sep 18, 2006, 05:02 PM // 17:02

With Beguiling Haze, you can do:

Leaping Mantis Strike
Jungle Strike
Beguiling Haze
Twisted Fangs

Dazed covered by Bleeding and Deep Wounds.

Siphon Strength would be good, if you had Scorpion Wire or Impale to cover it. But then you need Deadly Arts for that.

Just a thought.

Clan Ta`Lis · Oct 03, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

This thread (so far

) is how I wish more of them would be like.
1. OP drops a build
2. ppl make constructive observations on the OP's build, hopefully providing alternate skills with reason for the change
3. OP explains/defends skill selection vs suggested changes without becoming defensive

In the interest of preserving your builds "name", I don't think ppl can offer suggestions for replacing Empathic Removal (ER)- without significantly modifying the build. It would be nice to see such a unique build become an effective addition to the Assassin's bag of "whoop-ass".

That having been said...
If you decide to ditch ER, and you want a condition remover, then I would suggest Mend Ailment (MA). Pro/Cons: (both are 5 energy)
ER has no attribute requirement (more for Sin

) , but has a 10 second recharge and you must "target other ally". imho, 10sec is a looong time to wait to get rid of additional conditions.

MA heals for each remaining condition and has a 5 second recharge, but, requires points in Protection Prayers and does not apply to Hexes. Off the top of my head however- I seem to remember Mesmer & Necro Hexes ending when the caster stopped breathing...

To expand on White_Chaos' suggestion of Dark Escape, and to satisfy the Shadow of Haste stance cancellation you require, I would add:
Your build is dependent on the lead attack hitting (cripple) a kiting opponent, so that the off-hand is effective (+33 if crippled). Since you already have a +15% move rate from SH to get to the target, when you need to get out (map dependent)- what will get you further from your SH activation point... Dash @ 50% faster for 3 seconds (5s wait to re-cast), or Dark Escape @ 25% faster for about 17 seconds (plus the 1/2 damage)? Granted, DE has a 30s recharge, but you would have the option of using the extra consecutive time to either link up with allies, re-cast SH, or, run back to the target moving +25% to finish it off

A second option: Assuming your attacks hit, you will have inflicted cripple, bleeding, and deep wounds. Another "stance cancellation" that would benefit you is Vipers Defense, also a SA attribute stance skill. Adding poisoning to the list of conditions as you teleport away usually changes the targets mind about chasing you, and if not removed, will usually finish them off.

The only reason I have suggested a replacement skill that doesn't provide a +% to movement, is because SH now lasts longer than the recharge time (51sec vs 30sec recharge), and it can be spammed without activating it.

Heh- just realized how long it's been since the last reply...

Lord Oranos- if you are still following this thread, i would be interested in what changes you have made.

De Oppresso Liber

Lord Oranos · Oct 03, 2006, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clan Ta`Lis

This thread (so far

) is how I wish more of them would be like.
1. OP drops a build
2. ppl make constructive observations on the OP's build, hopefully providing alternate skills with reason for the change
3. OP explains/defends skill selection vs suggested changes without becoming defensive

In the interest of preserving your builds "name", I don't think ppl can offer suggestions for replacing Empathic Removal (ER)- without significantly modifying the build. It would be nice to see such a unique build become an effective addition to the Assassin's bag of "whoop-ass".

That having been said...
If you decide to ditch ER, and you want a condition remover, then I would suggest Mend Ailment (MA). Pro/Cons: (both are 5 energy)
ER has no attribute requirement (more for Sin

) , but has a 10 second recharge and you must "target other ally". imho, 10sec is a looong time to wait to get rid of additional conditions.

MA heals for each remaining condition and has a 5 second recharge, but, requires points in Protection Prayers and does not apply to Hexes. Off the top of my head however- I seem to remember Mesmer & Necro Hexes ending when the caster stopped breathing...

To expand on White_Chaos' suggestion of Dark Escape, and to satisfy the Shadow of Haste stance cancellation you require, I would add:
Your build is dependent on the lead attack hitting (cripple) a kiting opponent, so that the off-hand is effective (+33 if crippled). Since you already have a +15% move rate from SH to get to the target, when you need to get out (map dependent)- what will get you further from your SH activation point... Dash @ 50% faster for 3 seconds (5s wait to re-cast), or Dark Escape @ 25% faster for about 17 seconds (plus the 1/2 damage)? Granted, DE has a 30s recharge, but you would have the option of using the extra consecutive time to either link up with allies, re-cast SH, or, run back to the target moving +25% to finish it off

A second option: Assuming your attacks hit, you will have inflicted cripple, bleeding, and deep wounds. Another "stance cancellation" that would benefit you is Vipers Defense, also a SA attribute stance skill. Adding poisoning to the list of conditions as you teleport away usually changes the targets mind about chasing you, and if not removed, will usually finish them off.

The only reason I have suggested a replacement skill that doesn't provide a +% to movement, is because SH now lasts longer than the recharge time (51sec vs 30sec recharge), and it can be spammed without activating it.

Heh- just realized how long it's been since the last reply...

Lord Oranos- if you are still following this thread, i would be interested in what changes you have made.

De Oppresso Liber

Well, theres another elite I want to use when Nightfall comes out... a couple actually.

"You're All Alone!"-If target foe is not adjacent to an ally, that foe suffers from Cripple and Weakness for 10 seconds.(Perfect snare that allows me to trigger the extra damage on my offhand attack, downside is I lose my hex and condition removal).

Signet of Removal-If target ally is under the effects of an Enchantment, that ally loses one Hex and one Condition.(Much better than emphatic removal, I only have one enchant to use, but if I have any other enchant on me...well... free Hex and Condition removal every five seconds

).

Hidden Caltrops-For 20 seconds, the next time target foe takes damage while moving, that foe takes 15...63 damage and is Crippled for 5...17 seconds.(Another nice elite, can give the combo a nice damage boost.)

Fox's Promise-For 5...17 seconds, your attacks cannot be "blocked" or "evaded." This Enchantment ends the next time you fail to hit. (Wonderful little skill, could be a problem around blindbots though.)

Shadow Prison-Shadow Step to target foe. For 4...9 seconds, that foe moves 66% slower.(Ive used this during the weekend, and its a very nice elite, but, I would completely change the combo if I used this.)

To be honest I even considered using Blessed Light for a time, havnt tried it yet, prolly more effective than Emphatic though.

For the cancel stance, its a hard choice, when I activate Shadow of Haste its usually far enough away so when I use Dash Im out of danger... but sometimes I screw up with it and end up right in the middle of enemies... so yeah, Dark Escape could be a worthwhile addition.

Mend ailment could be nice, but, usually its the hexes that kill me, especially degen, since all I have to fight it is an enchantment(bad, can be stripped) that heals for 4 seconds. The only hexes I know of that stop when the caster dies is Life Siphon, Life Transfer, Malaise, and Wither... I cant remember any others.

Mr Jazzy · Oct 04, 2006, 12:30 AM // 00:30

don't bother bringing TWO heal skills. it's just really useless, unless yo monks suck. i'd throw shroud of distress, unless you're planning to tank.

get an offensive elite, like temple strike, since you have high daggers. bring a shadow step skill (not shadow of haste, sry but that sux) to get you out of danger.

peace

jesh · Oct 04, 2006, 02:11 AM // 02:11

The point isn't to heal, it's to clean yourself from conditions/hexes.. if I understood right. These keep you from doing damage. He's just being self sufficient. Not sure if he's talking about PvE, but I say from experience I've never seen a monk bring hex removal, ever.. other than me.

From the way the OP is writing, I think he has enough damage in his build as-is, and he's looking for something that can justify a place in his other skill slots.

lapsus · Oct 04, 2006, 02:20 AM // 02:20

well if your that afraid of hexes and conditions, if you swap from a/mo to a/r you can get melandrus resiliance, its a helpful elite it doesnt get rid of your conditions or hexes just makes a nice heal out of them.

if you dont want to switch id say drop distress grab crit defense. no condition if they dont hit and the block rate is better with defenses imo.

Clan Ta`Lis · Oct 04, 2006, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Oranos

Well, theres another elite I want to use when Nightfall comes out... a couple actually.

Heh- I wasn't going to bring up the Nightfall skills in case some of them get nerfed before release, but ya- things will definately get interesting.

@ jesh- Your right on the money. The OP dropped a new bag of tricks for a (universally criticized- aka "n00b") A/Mo, with the intent of making the build self-sufficient, and not a burden to the rest of the team. Plus he has demonstrated an understanding of the correct way to utilize a Sin.

@ Mr Jazzy- Hmm, you lost me there about the 2 heals- the build only lists S.Refuge- skill 7. Shroud of Distress is listed in the build, switchable with Res in skill 8. OPs 2nd post indicated favoring Temple Strike, but let's see what we can do with the current {E}

@ Lapsus- Shroud of Distress(SD) vs. Critical Defenses(CD). Normally, i would agree with you based solely on the energy cost, the probability of a crit refreshing CD, and my "better to not get hit at all" mentality. However, I think the current build's attributes favors SD with Shadow Arts @ 11 and Critical strikes @ 9 as far as "% chance to" block or evade. In addition, SDs 30 second duration gives a little more freedom to modify hit-&-run tactics based on the targets condition and nearby threats after the first attack string. I guess what I'm saying is, with only the 3 attack skills and the in/out tactics- odds are the hexes and conditions will be coming from nearby opponents, or the target as the Sin breaks off.
lol- One last point to add (sorry, I'm on a roll

) This may need clarification- but does "block" refer to physical/wand attacks only? And does "evade" include all attacks- even spell/hex/touch attacks?

err- kinda looks like I'm hijacking the thread- sorry Oranos

The build only lists a 3 attack chain that the OP considered "good damage", but it also hits with 3 conditions. A 4 hit combo, finishing with the lead (LMS->JS->TF->LMS) may be all it takes to let conditions do the rest. It also "covers" deep wounds with re-application of cripple. The OP should have plenty of flexibility on WHEN to run based on the mobility skills.
I for one am not good with the DPS numbers game. I'm curious if we can come up with a higher DPS or Crit combo, with conditions, based on the current attributes and support skills (re-stated for accuracy):

Attributes: CS 9, DM 16, SA 11
Skills:
1. Leaping Mantis Sting
2. Jungle Strike
3. Twisting Fangs
4. Empathic Removal {E}
5. Dash
6. Shadow of Haste
7. Shadow Refuge
8. Res / Shroud Of Distress

Keeping in mind that we want to keep the current {E} for now, I would say the rest are fair game.
-Previous posts have suggested replacing (#4) Dash with Dark Escape or Viper's Defense (for an additional condition) as a stance breaker for Shadow of Haste.

De Oppresso Liber

Lord Oranos · Oct 04, 2006, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clan Ta`Lis

Heh- I wasn't going to bring up the Nightfall skills in case some of them get nerfed before release, but ya- things will definately get interesting.

@ jesh- Your right on the money. The OP dropped a new bag of tricks for a (universally criticized- aka "n00b") A/Mo, with the intent of making the build self-sufficient, and not a burden to the rest of the team. Plus he has demonstrated an understanding of the correct way to utilize a Sin.

@ Mr Jazzy- Hmm, you lost me there about the 2 heals- the build only lists S.Refuge- skill 7. Shroud of Distress is listed in the build, switchable with Res in skill 8. OPs 2nd post indicated favoring Temple Strike, but let's see what we can do with the current {E}

@ Lapsus- Shroud of Distress(SD) vs. Critical Defenses(CD). Normally, i would agree with you based solely on the energy cost, the probability of a crit refreshing CD, and my "better to not get hit at all" mentality. However, I think the current build's attributes favors SD with Shadow Arts @ 11 and Critical strikes @ 9 as far as "% chance to" block or evade. In addition, SDs 30 second duration gives a little more freedom to modify hit-&-run tactics based on the targets condition and nearby threats after the first attack string. I guess what I'm saying is, with only the 3 attack skills and the in/out tactics- odds are the hexes and conditions will be coming from nearby opponents, or the target as the Sin breaks off.
lol- One last point to add (sorry, I'm on a roll

) This may need clarification- but does "block" refer to physical/wand attacks only? And does "evade" include all attacks- even spell/hex/touch attacks?

err- kinda looks like I'm hijacking the thread- sorry Oranos

The build only lists a 3 attack chain that the OP considered "good damage", but it also hits with 3 conditions. A 4 hit combo, finishing with the lead (LMS->JS->TF->LMS) may be all it takes to let conditions do the rest. It also "covers" deep wounds with re-application of cripple. The OP should have plenty of flexibility on WHEN to run based on the mobility skills.
I for one am not good with the DPS numbers game. I'm curious if we can come up with a higher DPS or Crit combo, with conditions, based on the current attributes and support skills (re-stated for accuracy):

Attributes: CS 9, DM 16, SA 11
Skills:
1. Leaping Mantis Sting
2. Jungle Strike
3. Twisting Fangs
4. Empathic Removal {E}
5. Dash
6. Shadow of Haste
7. Shadow Refuge
8. Res / Shroud Of Distress

Keeping in mind that we want to keep the current {E} for now, I would say the rest are fair game.
-Previous posts have suggested replacing (#4) Dash with Dark Escape or Viper's Defense (for an additional condition) as a stance breaker for Shadow of Haste.

De Oppresso Liber

Np about hijacking :P, really, I meant this to be a balanced sin, maybe even for use in gvg(gasp) on splits. All of the Assassins I see, I can usualy tear through them, keep in mind even though the mobility has been increased, the surprise attack from aod is not there. I like the damage more than the usual AoD shock combo though, the exhaution limits it to a skill chain every 30 seconds... ugh.

Now, Im not sure what can be more damaging in 3 skills other than the Unsuspecting-Wild Strike-Twisting Fangs, but thats conditional too.
Btw, this combo does need abit more damage at the end, so just jab at your opponent untill he keels over. Usually it takes half the opponents life bar, but if it criticals, it will take 60-70%, keep in mind you shouldnt leeroy in and try to kill something, look for a weak link, one with the least self healing if a monk isnt around.

Deep Wound is a wonderful condition

Btw I have done a Temple Strike variant, its nice, but when it misses.. it hurts... I usually take another offhand incase that happens. The AoD elite works fine too, you just lose self condition and hex removal. Taking Caltrops instead of Shroud works fine too.

Also, this may appeal to some more than others, but, Emphatic can help out other hexed/conditioned allies, giving it a somewhat nice support.

Clan Ta`Lis · Oct 04, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

<snip>

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Oranos

Also, this may appeal to some more than others, but, Emphatic can help out other hexed/conditioned allies, giving it a somewhat nice support.

...which is why i have latched on to this thread.

Because my job takes me away from home months at a time, I have been solely a PvE player ever since Chap 1 came out, with little experience in PvP, and NO GvG experience.

However, (imho) it doesn't take a genius to realize that one good assassin attacking your back ranks/support/NPCs can be bad. Imagine the utter chaos/devastation if two of them got back there, and were mutually-supporting enough to not need a healer every other minute...

De Oppresso Liber